Tag: copper

  • Eurasian Resources Group expects a neutral-to-bullish outlook for key metals in 2025

    Eurasian Resources Group expects a neutral-to-bullish outlook for key metals in 2025

    Eurasian Resources Group has shared its market expectations for 2025 and beyond, highlighting several key trends across various metals and industries:

    Copper market growth: The global copper market is expected to grow by 4% year-over-year in 2025, with a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 2.5% projected between 2024 and 2034.

    Stainless steel and ferrochrome demand: Development of renewable energy sources like wind turbines, along with record sales in home appliances and consumer goods, is expected to drive strong growth in stainless steel demand, reaching 4.8% in 2025. This growth will significantly benefit the ferrochrome industry.

    Aluminum demand: An average 3% year-over-year growth in aluminum demand is anticipated in 2025, primarily driven by the automotive and renewable energy sectors.

    Cobalt market outlook: While currently in surplus, the global electric vehicle (EV) sector is expected to continue growing and may represent over 60% of cobalt demand by 2030. This is projected to lead to market deficits as cobalt demand outpaces supply by the end of the decade.

    AI impact on metals demand: Artificial intelligence is expected to increasingly boost additional metals demand. Bank of America has estimated that demand directly from data centers for copper could be around 200,000 tonnes per year between 2025 and 2028.

    Overall outlook: Eurasian Resources Group expects a neutral-to-bullish outlook for key metals in 2025, subject to various macro trends and factors such as the economic situation in China, potential trade protectionist measures, and US monetary policy.

    The group notes that while the speed and consistency of economic recovery may be uneven, the long-term fundamentals for metals and minerals in ERG’s product portfolio appear promising.

  • Kingsrose-BHP Alliance Uncovers High-Grade Copper and Precious Metals in European Exploration

    Kingsrose-BHP Alliance Uncovers High-Grade Copper and Precious Metals in European Exploration

    Kingsrose Mining Limited (ASX: KRM) has announced significant progress in its exploration alliances with global mining giant BHP, targeting critical minerals in Norway and Finland. The joint efforts, part of one of Europe’s largest generative exploration programs, have yielded high-grade copper, gold, silver, and platinum group elements (PGEs), signaling potential for major discoveries.

    In Norway’s Finnmark region, rockchip sampling revealed exceptional results, including 29.7% copper, 1.1 g/t gold, and 0.54 g/t palladium at the Porsanger target, and 4.4% copper with 1.8 g/t gold at Virdnechokka. These findings, hosted in sulphide veins, suggest proximity to deeper magmatic systems, akin to Anglo American’s Sakatti deposit in Finland. A 5,067-line km airborne gravity survey and 208 rockchip samples underpin the 2024 campaign, with helicopter-borne electromagnetic surveys slated for February 2025 to identify conductive bodies indicative of massive sulphides.

    In Central Finland, the alliance focused on the Kotalahti Nickel Belt, historically rich in nickel-copper deposits. Drone and ground magnetic surveys covering 4,980-line km identified new mineralized zones at the Rehula target, including a 0.46% copper and 110 ppm cobalt sample. The program aligns with Kingsrose’s strategy to discover new polymetallic “camps” through systematic geophysical and geochemical analysis.

    Managing Director Fabian Baker emphasized the success of advanced exploration techniques and stakeholder collaboration, stating, “These results underscore the prospective nature of these underexplored regions. Our commitment to environmental and social values ensures sustainable progress.” The company has engaged Indigenous communities and conducted biodiversity surveys to secure social licenses, particularly in Sami-inhabited areas of Norway.

    With 2.7millionofa5 million Year 1 budget spent, Kingsrose plans further fieldwork in 2025, leveraging BHP’s expertise to prioritize drill targets. The alliances highlight Europe’s growing role in supplying critical minerals amid global decarbonization efforts.

    Kingsrose, a ASX-listed explorer, holds 100% interests in the Finnmark and Central Finland projects, backed by BHP’s Xplor accelerator program. Forward-looking statements caution inherent risks, but the findings position the company as a key player in Europe’s mineral exploration frontier.

    For more details, visit www.kingsrose.com.

  • Arras Minerals Reports Significant Gold Intersections at Elemes Project

    Arras Minerals Reports Significant Gold Intersections at Elemes Project

    Arras Minerals Corp. has announced further positive drill results from its ongoing exploration at the Elemes project in Northeast Kazakhstan. The latest findings reveal substantial gold and copper mineralization, reinforcing the project’s potential for large-scale development.

    A highlight of the program is drill hole EL24004 at the Berezski East target, which intersected a significant 304.8-meter zone grading 0.54 g/t gold-equivalent (AuEq), starting from just 1.2 meters below surface. Within this, a higher-grade section of 37.8 meters returned 1.50 g/t AuEq, suggesting the possibility of a sizeable open-pit gold deposit. A deeper zone within the same hole also yielded 50 meters at 0.45 g/t AuEq from a depth of 210 meters.

    At the K-Ozek target, drill hole EL24009 intersected several gold-bearing quartz veins, with a notable interval of 2 meters grading 1.55 g/t AuEq. This supports the presence of a high-grade low-sulphidation epithermal vein system. Meanwhile, drill hole EL24008 at a separate target returned 128 meters of mineralization grading 0.10 g/t AuEq, indicating broader but lower-grade mineralized zones.

    The Elemes project, located in the Bozshakol-Chingiz Magmatic Arc, is positioned near the Bozshakol Copper Mine, one of the largest copper-gold operations in the region. The Phase 1 drill program, which began in September 2024 and concluded in December, has focused on high-priority targets identified through extensive exploration, including geophysical surveys and soil sampling.

    Commenting on the results, Arras Minerals CEO Tim Barry expressed optimism about the project’s potential, particularly at Berezski East. “The continuous near-surface gold mineralization in EL24004 is a major step forward. The results indicate the presence of a large mineralized system that could support an open-pit operation,” Barry stated. President Darren Klinck added that the findings reinforce the Elemes project’s potential to host significant copper and gold mineralization.

    With these encouraging results, Arras Minerals plans to continue its exploration efforts, refining its understanding of the mineralized zones and identifying further opportunities for resource expansion.

  • Rio Tinto Calls for New Mines to Meet Demand for Key Energy Metals

    Rio Tinto Calls for New Mines to Meet Demand for Key Energy Metals

    The world needs more mines to meet the growing demand for energy-transition metals such as copper, according to Rio Tinto Group chairman Dominic Barton. Speaking in a Bloomberg TV interview, Barton stated that mergers and acquisitions alone will not solve the impending supply gap. “As an industry, we’re not going to inorganic our way out of this challenge,” Barton said, referring to the industry’s reliance on deals for growth. He highlighted the need for new mining projects in at least five key commodity areas.

    While global mining mergers and acquisitions (M&A) have surged recently—driven by strong cash flows and the increasing demand for green energy metals—Barton emphasized that building new mines is essential. BHP Group has been one of the most active players, notably making a move on Filo after its $49-billion bid for Anglo American was rejected.

    Unlike BHP, Rio Tinto has remained relatively quiet in the M&A space, choosing instead to invest hundreds of millions into exploration, with a primary focus on copper and lithium. However, Barton confirmed that the company is still evaluating acquisition opportunities. “We’re just going to have to build more,” he said, stressing the urgent need to discover and mine more copper in the next 30 years.

  • Aurubis Shares Drop as Third-Quarter Earnings Miss Expectations

    Aurubis Shares Drop as Third-Quarter Earnings Miss Expectations

    Shares in Aurubis plummeted by as much as 8.8% on Monday after the company, Europe’s largest copper producer, reported third-quarter earnings that fell short of market expectations. Despite a five-fold increase in earnings before tax (EBT) to €90 million ($98 million) from the same period last year, which had been marred by a significant metals theft, the results were below analysts’ forecast of €99 million.

    Comparing with two years ago, earnings were down by 13%. The custom smelting and products segment also saw a 13%decline in EBT, registering €82 million, while revenue for the smelting business decreased by 7% compared to the same period in 2021-22.

    One trader expressed concerns that the current full-year EBT expectation of €467 million may be “rather optimistic” given the results. He noted that robust metal prices should have mitigated the impact of a major maintenance shutdown in Hamburg, which concluded in July.

    While copper prices have dropped by about 18% from their peak in May, they remain relatively high. However, weak economic indicators from the US and China have pressured prices. Metzler analyst Thomas Schulte-Vorwick attributed the earnings miss to higher-than-anticipated costs from the Hamburg shutdown and the launch of a new plant in the United States.

    Aurubis reiterated its full-year EBT guidance of €380-480 million and highlighted that this was their best-ever quarterly result during a major plant shutdown. However, the company’s future performance could heavily depend on copper prices, with weak production in the US and China posing significant risks.

  • Portugal Finalizes Strategic Plan for Green Transition Raw Materials

    Portugal Finalizes Strategic Plan for Green Transition Raw Materials

    Portugal’s government is finalizing a strategic plan to explore raw materials critical to the green transition, with a particular focus on copper, which may take precedence over lithium. On Monday, Environment and Energy Minister Maria da Graca Carvalho highlighted Portugal’s wealth of critical raw materials, including copper, essential for electric cars.

    Portugal boasts the largest copper mine in the European Union, operated by Toronto-based Lundin Mining. The country also produces lithium for the ceramics industry and is developing large deposits of battery-grade lithium. “We have great potential to explore for copper, we already have a great tradition and we will continue to invest,” Carvalho stated during a conference.

    “When looking at critical raw materials, we have to consider lithium, but it is not the only one, nor perhaps the most important,” she added. The strategic plan is set to be presented on July 22. Carvalho noted, “Based on this strategy, we will define the areas of production for the various critical raw materials,” suggesting potential new concessions.

    Europe aims to enhance security and reduce dependence on imports from countries like China for materials crucial to the green transition. The previous Portuguese government had planned to auction licenses for lithium prospecting in six regions in the north and center of the country. However, concerns from nature preservation groups and local communities about the environmental and social impact of lithium mining have caused multiple delays since the auction’s initial plan in 2018.

    When asked about the new government’s stance on the lithium auction, Carvalho emphasized the need to review the final strategic plan and make decisions based on scientific and technical data.

  • The future of the plant. How AGMK is implementing a major investment project to increase copper production

    The future of the plant. How AGMK is implementing a major investment project to increase copper production

    Environmental trends create potential demand for copper, which is one of the main components of all these innovations. Today, the “new economy” already consumes 1.6 million tons of this metal. Against the backdrop of energy crises and the rising cost of energy resources, analysts argue that the demand, and consequently the prices for copper, will only continue to rise. They forecast that by 2030 the world will need 40% more copper than is mined today. All this adds up to an excellent opportunity for copper mining companies. Global leaders in this industry are actively modernizing their production, introducing advanced technologies that allow working with poor ores and copper slag to meet this growing demand with supply. The domestic copper producer, the Almalyk Mining and Metallurgical Combine, also has grand plans. Today, four investment projects are successfully being implemented here. One of the key projects is the development of the “Yoshlik” deposit worth almost $5 billion. The project involves the implementation of a whole complex of measures that will enable the enterprise to produce 400,000 tons of cathode copper per year by 2030 and become one of the world’s leading producers of this metal. This will not only secure the company’s future but also provide a powerful impetus for the development of the domestic economy: new production facilities will provide jobs for tens of thousands of people, increase tax revenues to the budget, while the combine already ranks as the second-largest taxpayer in the republic. As part of the investment project, the construction of three new copper beneficiation plants, a copper smelting complex, modernization of existing facilities, and the consolidation of two deposits of the combine – “Kalmakyr” and “Yoshlik” are planned. This project is considered one of the top 10 largest global projects in the metallurgy sector. Intensive open-pit mining operations are currently underway at the “Yoshlik” deposit. To reach the ore layer and prepare the quarry for further mining, around 180 million cubic meters of rock mass have been removed from here. To carry out massive mining works, new mining equipment has been acquired, and some transportation has also been outsourced. “We recently received two new locally assembled dump trucks with a payload of over 220 tons. In total, under the contract with a domestic company, the delivery of five such machines is expected, the rest will be delivered by March. We will use them for open-pit mining operations, and then for ore mining,” said Kamoliddinjon Marahimov, deputy chief engineer for mining operations. In addition, the combine is introducing a new cyclic-flow technology (CFT) for transportation. Several crushing-conveyor complexes will be built on the quarry site. In particular, two will be involved in transporting empty rock to the dumps, and two more – in shipping ore to the concentrator plants No. 3 and 4. It is worth reminding that in November of last year, the combine already launched one of the crushing and loading nodes for the third factory in test mode. Crushing units and 4-kilometer conveyors from Denmark, which have repeatedly proven their reliability and efficiency at numerous enterprises around the world, are installed here. These technologies will be used for primary crushing and transporting ore via conveyors instead of railway transport to ore warehouses. Overall, this solution will triple transportation costs and operational expenses. The third in line The investment project involves the construction of three copper beneficiation plants (CBP). Since 2021, active work has been underway to erect CBP-3. Today, this truly grandiose facility is at the stage of final construction and installation works. It is worth noting that Wood (Italy) and UZLITI Engineering (Uzbekistan) were involved in the design of CBP-3, Technip Energies (France) conducted the technical evaluation and acceptance of the basic project documentation, and Worley (UK) is supervising the construction. To ensure the timely launch of the factory, today, on the construction site of CBP-3 with a total area of 196 thousand square meters, more than 1000 pieces of equipment are involved, and a 15-thousand-strong international team of the general contractor Enter Engineering is working daily. The new facility will be equipped with the most modern equipment from leading manufacturers of mining and beneficiation equipment, such as AUMUND (Germany), Thyssenkrupp (Germany), Weir Minerals (UK), Sepro Minerals-Falcon (Canada), Metso (Finland), and others. In particular, for the first time at AGMK, the HPGR (High-Pressure Grinding Rolls) technology of semi-autogenous mills will be applied. This will reduce operating costs by 30% and achieve the minimum payback period for the introduced technology. Most of the large-sized equipment has already been installed and is ready for commissioning. The remaining part is at the stage of completing installation works. The activity of the factory will be fully automated, which will reduce the impact of the human factor on production processes, increase the quality of the products, and reduce emergency situations. The automation of the technological process will be based on modern software and hardware used in the practice of global manufacturers like ABB (Switzerland) and Siemens (Germany). The technological process at CBP-3 will be controlled from a centralized dispatch center, the construction of which is currently being completed. 1200 automation cabinets will be installed in the factory’s units. According to Alexander Kuznetsov, the head of the production facilities of the CBP-3 project, the first production lines of the factory will start operating soon. “We are making every effort to commission the facility on time. The commissioning of the facility will be carried out step by step. By the end of the year, we plan to obtain the first commercial concentrate. When reaching the full design capacity, the factory will process 60 million tons of ore annually,” he noted. It is worth noting that today the combine processes more than 40 million tons of ore annually. Thus, the capacities of the enterprise will soon increase to 100 million tons of processed rock. And this is just in a few years – it took decades to achieve the current level! And there are still the fourth and fifth copper beneficiation plants in the pipeline. Also, with the commissioning of the new facility, about 3.5 thousand new jobs will be created. Thus, this huge modern factory will become a strategically important object, having great significance for the socio-economic development of our country, for our youth, and for future generations. Copper Smelting Complex With the acquisition of additional volumes of concentrated ores, the capacities of the current copper smelting plant, which currently produces 148 thousand tons of cathode copper annually, will be insufficient. “At the first stage, we face the task of producing 300 thousand tons of copper per year. To accomplish this, a decision has been made to expand the capacities of the copper smelting plant to a metallurgical complex. Studying the experience of other countries, we decided to purchase flash smelting and flash converting furnaces for it, as well as modern sulfuric acid plant technologies from the leading company Metso. The contract will be signed shortly,” shared the chief engineer of the smelting plant, Zhasur Ergashev. This is practically fully automated equipment and the most optimal solution, both financially and environmentally. For example, the new furnace will be able to process several times more concentrate than other similar analogs allow. This provides greater production efficiency, reduces processing time, and consequently, the payback period of the equipment. And the closed gas discharge system from the copper production will reduce emissions and establish production with a capacity of 1.8 million tons of sulfuric acid per year. A slag beneficiation plant will also be built at the copper smelting complex, which will process by-products at a capacity of over 1.5 million tons per year. The project includes the construction of a department for slow cooling of slags, which will allow for maximum waste-free production. “Previously, the slags were taken to dumps, where they cooled naturally. Now, after undergoing the slow cooling process, they will be sent to the slag beneficiation plant for further processing. This way, we can increase copper recovery from 93% to 98%. Thus, less valuable material will go to waste. This is a fairly good indicator,” explained the director of the future complex department, Alisher Shanasirov. Currently, the basic engineering of the project is being completed, preliminary site preparation for construction is underway, and infrastructure relocation is ongoing. It is expected that specific actions will begin by the end of this year. It should be noted that to transport the finished concentrate, cyclic-flow technology will also be used. A tubular conveyor, 4.7 kilometers long, will be stretched from CBP-3 to the copper smelting complex. Its construction is scheduled to start in the summer and be completed by the beginning of 2027. Technical services and infrastructure In addition, work is actively underway on the construction and development of infrastructure. For example, at the CBP-3 base, technical water supply complexes are being built for the factory’s own needs, with a capacity of 23.5 thousand cubic meters per hour. The growing production will also require more electricity. Therefore, to meet the needs of the new facilities in electricity, AGMK has built a new technological substation with a capacity of 650 megawatts and is completing the construction of two transformer substations. They will provide electricity to the “Yoshlik” deposit, CBP-3, and the cyclic-flow technology. It is worth noting that this will be the first substation in the CIS with full digital control. The construction of an explosive materials plant is nearing completion. It will produce 90 thousand tons of explosives per year. Also, a new laboratory will be built for the needs of the quarry, which will be engaged in sample analysis. The expanding production complex will require more technical service capabilities. Therefore, expanding and modernizing the Central Repair and Mechanical Plant (CRMP) is one of the key tasks within this investment project. The CRMP is being supplemented with new equipment, production of new products is being established to ensure that there are no problems with servicing and supplying spare parts for new units at new facilities. In parallel, construction of assembly areas is underway, where maintenance and technical servicing of large-scale automotive equipment will take place. Thus, if today AGMK produces 148 thousand tons of copper, by 2025 the above measures will allow the production of 300 thousand tons of metal annually. By increasing production, by 2030 the enterprise plans to extract 400 thousand tons of copper from the deposit. In addition, the combine is not only focused on increasing the volume of copper production but also actively works to increase the volume of production of high value-added products and export not just raw materials but finished products. This will increase the company’s revenue to 8 billion dollars. International recognition In implementing such a large investment project, AGMK, in particular, relies on the experience of leading international companies. The project is financed from the funds of the combine itself, as well as loans from domestic and foreign banks. German and French financial institutions show great interest in it. “If before we independently sought financing for our projects, now banks, both local and foreign, are themselves at our doors, offering more convenient lending terms,” noted the director of the project office for the implementation of the “Yoshlik” investment project, Zokirkhuja Ishankhojaev. This interest can be explained by the fact that the combine has great development prospects. The large British company SRK Consulting confirmed the presence of 45 million tons of copper reserves and more than 5 thousand tons of gold at the “Yoshlik” deposit. According to the director of the consulting company, Mike Beer, today no state in the world can boast of such reserves. “Data on the reserves of the Almalyk deposit were published according to the JORC code, which is recognized at the international level. This is truly the future of our enterprise,” concluded the AGMK representative.

  • Anglo Asian releases initial resource estimate for Xarxar copper deposit

    Anglo Asian releases initial resource estimate for Xarxar copper deposit

    Anglo Asian Mining (LON: AAZ) released on Tuesday a JORC-compliant mineral resource update (MRE) for the Xarxar copper deposit in Azerbaijan following its discovery last year. The initial MRE shows 24.9 million tonnes of mineralization with average grades of 0.48% copper, for 119,100 tonnes of contained metal.

    A majority of the MRE is in the measured and indicated category, totalling 22 million tonnes at 0.48% copper for 106,000 tonnes. The remaining resource (2.9 million tonnes at 0.44% copper for 12,800 tonnes) are in the inferred category.

    In July 2022, an extensive geological exploration program began at the Xarxar deposit, targeting the central copper mineralization zone. Surface drill holes intercepted significant high-grade and continuous grades of copper mineralization, with intercepts of continuous copper for up to 380 metres.

    Last month, the company confirmed the significant quantity of copper mineralization at Xarxar following analysis of recent surface drilling on the project.

    Data for 66 holes with a total length of 21,707 metres (including historical drilling) were eventually used to complete the first resource estimate for Xarxar.

    This resource estimate, Anglo Asian’s VP Stephen Westhead said, demonstrates that the deposit is “a substantial resource” containing over 100,000 tonnes of copper. According to the company, the Xarxar deposit still has significant additional exploration potential.

    “To further expand the current mineral resources estimate, work will include surface infill drilling to the east of the deposit, deposit geotechnical and hydrogeological drilling, and drilling to supply samples for further metallurgical testwork,” Westhead added.

    The resource estimate was prepared using a copper price of $9,000 per tonne to determine the amount of metal under the reasonable prospects for eventual economic extraction under JORC criteria.

    The parameters of an open pit were also determined at a copper selling price of $20,000 to calculate a “maximum” pit floor depth, which was used to define two zones (one upper and one lower). The upper zone is calculated to have resources ranging from 5.0 to 10.2 million tonnes at 0.2% to 0.3% copper.

    The Xarxar deposit is one of several exploration-stage assets held by Anglo Asian in Azerbaijan. The group currently produces gold, silver and copper from its flagship Gedabek mine, with four more mines planned to come online over the next four years.

  • Five charged with 11 million euro metal theft from Aurubis

    Five charged with 11 million euro metal theft from Aurubis

    Prosecutors did not name the company, but an Aurubis spokesperson confirmed separately to Reuters that it is the producer involved.

    Aurubis, Europe’s largest copper producer, has cut its earnings forecast for its current financial year and suffered a fall in its share price following major suspected metals theft.

    A statement from the Hamburg state prosecutors office said five people had been charged in connection with the theft of about 5,000 kilograms of materials containing precious metals from the company between February 2020 and January 2021. A further person has been charged with assisting them.

    Precious metals including silver are contained in copper ores and scrap which are refined for sale as byproducts by Aurubis.

    The stolen material was allegedly sold to as-yet unidentified parties but part of it was sent for analysis and further used by an unidentified company in Turkey, prosecutors said.

    The five people, aged between 33 and 50 years, used encrypted mobile phones to communicate with each other. Their trial is scheduled to start in December, prosecutors said.

  • KAZ Minerals increased copper production by 7%

    KAZ Minerals increased copper production by 7%

    The copper mining group KAZ Minerals produced 301.2 thousand tons of copper in January–September, which is 7% more than in the same period in 2022.

    “In the first nine months of 2023, the KAZ Minerals group produced more than 300 thousand tons of copper, which is 7% more than in the same period last year. This was achieved thanks to the expansion of capacity at the second world-class enrichment plant at Aktogay,” the statement said.

    Production of zinc in concentrate increased by 24% to 36.4 thousand tons, thanks to mining in areas with a higher metal content and, as a result, an increased recovery factor. Silver production increased by 11% to 3 million ounces as the group also processed higher-grade ore, while gold production decreased by 7% to 120.3 thousand ounces due to an expected decline in metal grades. ore at Bozshakol and Bozymchak.

    “In the nine months of 2023, KAZ Minerals produced 301 thousand tonnes of copper, up 7% year-on-year, thanks to the global expansion of capacity at its second concentrator at Aktogay. In 2023, the group has already sold its finished product inventories accumulated in the previous year, and copper sales were 43 thousand tons ahead of production in 2023,” said KAZ Minerals Chairman Andrew Southam .

    The Group sold accumulated inventories of finished products created in 2022, while the volume of copper sales for the period up to September 30, 2023 amounted to 344 thousand tons, which is 43 thousand tons more than production volume.

    The volume of copper production at Aktogay in January–September amounted to 192 thousand tons, which is 14% more than a year earlier. Copper production at Bozshakol is 77.5 thousand tons versus 77.9 thousand tons previously. Copper production in the Eastern region and Bozymchak decreased by 12%, to 31.7 thousand tons.

    At the end of the first half of the year, the copper mining group KAZ Minerals produced 200 thousand tons of copper, which is 11% more than in the same period in 2022, and sold 223 thousand tons of metal.

    KAZ Minerals operates the Aktogay copper mine and the Orlovsky mine in the Abay region and the Bozshakol mine in the Pavlodar region, two underground mines and processing plants in the East Kazakhstan region and the Bozymchak copper-gold mine in Kyrgyzstan. Vladimir Kim , who owns 63.5% of KAZ Minerals, ranks first among the richest Kazakhstanis according to Forbes with a fortune of $4.6 billion.  Oleg Novachuk , who owns 36.5% of KAZ Minerals shares, has a fortune of $615 million, ranking 13- e place.